Dave Wightman got banned for assaulting Graham Elliot.
What exactly did Graham Elliot get banned for?
Retain the mind like that of a child, which flows like running water.
When considering any thing, do not lose its opposite."
Lao Tzu
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Damian Kimmins |
Re: Graham Elliott - a Statement. | ||
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Thinking about it logically for a minute;
Dave Wightman got banned for assaulting Graham Elliot. What exactly did Graham Elliot get banned for? "Whilst developing creativity, also cultivate receptivity.
Retain the mind like that of a child, which flows like running water. When considering any thing, do not lose its opposite." Lao Tzu |
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trentbarbeler |
Re: Chairman's statement of events. | ||
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Dear Fred,
I welcome the statement you made but as a party not connected to this issue at all, like almost everyone else here, I do have one or two questions to ask concerning your statement seeing as Graham, and now yourself via your statement made, chose to bring this into open debate? You stated Fred: The verbal and physical exchanges involving Dave Wightman and Graham Elliott that followed the AGM in April were considered in detail by the Committee at the scheduled Committee Meeting on Wed 10 May 2006. Dave Wightman and Graham Elliott were given the same opportunity to present their case. Dave did so in person and produced two statements supporting his account of events. Graham had a pre-arranged holiday and agreed with me in advance of the meeting that he was happy to have his account submitted in writing. Two statements supporting his account of events were also presented to the meeting. Firstly I would like to ask what item in the constitution, or rules of the club, covers the apparent offence that was committed apparently following the AGM in April? From my understanding of club committee procedure it is normal practise, if leave is granted for accused parties deemed to have broken club rules to present their cases in person, that all accused be given equal opportunity to do this. In the case involving Mr Elliott and Mr Wightman, Mr Elliott was unable to do this due to a pre-arranged holiday. Did the committee not consider it proper procedure to adjourn any such disciplinary hearing until both parties were able to do this in person? And in the case of Mr Elliott, was he advised by the chairman of any club disciplinary committee of his rights and that it might jeopardise his case if he elected to have his case submitted in writing and NOT heard in person as it appears Mr Wightmans case was? What exactly does it say in either the club constitution or rules of the club concerning appeals? From my understanding of correct committee procedure the rules, not just yours, is very clear about the procedure concerning appeals. So when you said; As a result of approaches from several Committee members and other members through June, the issue of the penalties imposed on Graham Elliott and Dave Wightman was added to the agenda for the most recent Committee Meeting, which took place on Wed 19 July. After a vigorous and at times heated debate, a vote was taken and the proposal to review the penalties was defeated. It was therefore not possible to allow Graham Elliott to present his appeal in person, which was his intention. Again from my understanding of committee procedure, if an appeal against disciplinary action taken previously by a committee or disciplinary committee made up from members within that committee, that appeal should be heard separately outside a normal committee meetings agenda. An appeal is just that, an appeal. So making decisions in committee prior to the presentation of an appeal where original punishments meated out are simply ratified is a nonsense surely? All membership committees should have an appeals system in place whereby members have a right of appeal if disciplinary action is taken against them thus depriving them of their rights. Does the club have an appeals system in place? Because if it does, and it should in my opinion, do Mr Elliott and Mr Wightman know that they are entitled to have council present at any appeal heard to represent them? Regards, Lee. |
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barbulus tor |
Re: Chairman's statement of events. | ||
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mwelsh3 |
Re: Chairman's statement of events. | ||
Quote: That does rather seem to be the emerging theme here, seems like the 'good men' in the club have been walking as a result of this debacle. I'll be investing in ticket(s) for water in and around the TDFC coverage area but they are definitely off my list. Graham, Do whatever you feel is right to be able to put this behind you and move on mate, you have so much to offer our sport and their loss will be very much someone else's gain. All the best Mike |
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PhilB |
Chairmans Summary | ||
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Paul
Thanks for the clarification that the statement is off the TDFC, doesn't alter my original question though regarding Fred's profile. Lee Agree entirely with your post. It would appear that Committee do not know the law they are ultimately governed by. Fred or TDFC Two questions/points unanswered in the statement. Why if the three committee members knew who was banned and for the period of time involved, did they then knowingly allow one of the said banned members to participate in two TDFC matches, one of which was on TDFC waters? Why if they knowingly knew the person was banned, were they not charged with bringing TDFC into disrepute? A very grave charge carrying severe repurcussions within any organisation. All I used to fish the Pats thirty five odd years ago when Bill Gardner & Don Metcalfe were involved. It was a stunningly beautiful place, long runs under overhanging trees, streamer weed beds, and lots of cover. I was fortunate/unfortunate to re visit it as a guest a couple of years ago. Where once there was cover, now there were palletted swims. Where once you trotted a float under far bank trees, now there were only stumps left. Where once you could hide in the undergrowth and fish under your rod top, now there was little bankside cover worth having. It used to be a lovely fishery for matchmen and specialists alike, now it is looking like any other commercial/match water. They do say you should never go back. |
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bb king |
Re: Chairmans Summary | ||
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Which one is 'Fred'?
![]() Note: What is being 'said' by the actions of the T&DFC here is 1 - Being an aggressor will not be tolerated. 2 - Being a VICTIM OF VIOLENCE will not be tolerated. DISGRACEFUL! SKYPE me - bb king or bfw_bbking
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thetrentrotter |
Re: Chairmans Summary | ||
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PhilB
Quote: Do you pursue and enforce this in the B.S? From another angle, it does seem reading between the lines that GE was trying to take over or influence the club and make it totally barbel orientated, and was therefore stopped in his tracks by others who fish for other species and different ways. |
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thisisjohn |
hold on there | ||
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Hold on there Trentrotter, as usual your post becomes
uncalled for inference, Graham has been for many years attached in some form or other to twyford and has helped them in various ways, what gives you the right to ASSUME that because he is a Barbel enthusiast that he would try to press his personal likes on a club? Obviously you dont know Graham very well! more to the point if positions were in reversal and it was you in place of graham How would you feel under the circumstances if someone like you started uncalled for inference? yeah pretty peeved |
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Nick Coulthurst |
Spineless | ||
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How many club officials have resigned their post in protest of the way Dave Wightman has been treated ? I can understand the committee's reluctance to do the right thing though, after all Dave might goss on them in the dinner line, and pick on them on the school bus home.
Nick C |
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Captain red |
Re: Spineless | ||
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What happened to the guys who got guest tickets for Dave, sorry if I missed it?
Keith |
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thetrentrotter |
Re: Presumed Innocent | ||
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John-It would be interesting to hear Dave's side to the story don't you think? As usual, every thing on this thread is always biased towards a member of BFW by close accomplices.
There is always another side to the story and we have not heard it yet from Dave's defence or the real mitigating circumstances beforehand that led to the punch up etc. Trenty -- in the Gallery |
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Tom R |
Re: Presumed Innocent | ||
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Trenty,
Nothing stopping Dave coming on here to post. Or the rest of the committee. If they were confident of their case they would be only too willing to argue their corner. Tom |
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bb king |
Re: Presumed Innocent | ||
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Trenty,
Are you suggesting that there might be mitigating circumstances as to why this Dave launched an unprovoked violent attack on a man from behind? If there is, I for one would love to hear it. SKYPE me - bb king or bfw_bbking
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adrian |
Re: Presumed Innocent | ||
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Ditto.
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Nick Roberts |
Re: Presumed Innocent | ||
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bbking,
Nice Answers on a postcard please! |
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Graham Elliott |
Re: Presumed Innocent | ||
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Hello all .
Just to clear up a possible misunderstanding and for clarification. When I posted the first message on this board regarding this incident I also sent a link to the Secretary and the Chairman. So they could see it. That was fair and would give them the chance to reply. I understood that a message in response had been posted on the TDFC website. I was not informed of this and have not access. I had asked someone to please post the Chairmans statement from the TDFC website as again I could not have the opportunity to respond. So thank you Fred.(good name) In response to the posting from the Chairman., Who, incidently is a good man and has a Job to do. This is the chain of events. I was told that there would be an investigation of the events at the AGM at a meeting. I was booked on a Caribbean Cruise when the meeting was to be held. No alternative date was offered. The Chairman had seen me being attacked for the 2nd time outside and was appalled. He not only told me that he would speak on my behalf at the Meeting but also that another Committee member had seen the first attack and would also support me. He was confident of the outcome and told me he would ensure the meeting would be conducted fairly. I gave him a statement Including the names of members who were with me when I was attacked and who would provide clear details of the unprovoked nature of the attack. I believe the Chairman thought it was a clear cut case. In the event, none of the witnesses I listed were contacted. I did not know this until my return from Holiday. On my return the Chairman, along with my witnesses gave a statement to the Police and my aggressor was charged with ABH and pleaded guilty and received a Caution. I then asked for an opportunity to clear myself, appear personally before the Committee and allow my written witness statements to be given. Despite being told I could, when I turned up at the meeting this was not allowed. If I had been allowed the same option as My attacker, that would have been the end of it. The sad thing is, almost everyone on the Committee knows that I was attacked without provocation. So Specifically. 1/ Both had the same opportunity! ......one was on holiday! 2/ Treated democratically ..... one appeared before the Committee personally, one was not allowed to! 3/ One had his witness statements considered. ....one others witness statements were not allowed to be considered. 4/ One abused the ban, and supported by 3 Committee members, fished TDFC waters. One accepted the ban until he would be given the opportunity to respond. 5/ One was charged by the police for the attack, pleaded guilty. .......one was not even interviewed. Even that was not enough for the Committee to give me the opportunity to present my case. All but 4 of the remaining group are Corrupt. Incidently, I have a copy of a letter from one of the Senior Committee members who has resigned. It will come into the public domain at the next meeting. Dynamite. Graham |
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Zanderman |
Presumed Innocent? Let's punish him anyway! | ||
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Hi all, I have to say attacking a chap from behind is about as low as you can get and in it self gives a guide to the sort of person that Graham was dealing with.
I have only met Graham once I believe, however I have read much of his posting and I have communicated with him privately, he does not seem to me to be the sort of chap that would wish to take over a club to make it Barbel orientated, he seems to me to be more likely to preserve the fishing as best he could for everyone to enjoy, whether they be Specialist or Matchman or Pleasure angler. Reading between the lines it seems to me that Twyford were a Match orientated Club that wished to continue in that vein and Graham was seen as a threat to the Matchmans monopoly. One point I am unsure of;- Why was Graham given a five year ban for being attacked from behind? Living as we do in B Liars socialist utopia, victims of crime are rarely compensated properly either financially or with justice, but to actually punish a victim seems a little over the top. Now this sort of thing has come to light I suspect that John Reid will investigate the possibilities of creating a revenue stream from fining victims of crime. I have seen the Mississippi. That is Muddy water.
I have seen the St Lawrence. That is Crystal water. But The Thames is Liquid History. ( John Elliot Burns) |
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thetrentrotter |
Re: Presumed Innocent? Let's punish him anyway! | ||
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Graham
Your last post is the aftermath of events! What i would like to know is what brought on the chain of events in the first place? What are your thoughts on 'WHY' you were attacked? There must be a reason hidden somewhere out there. Trenty in the 'public' gallery. |
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adrian |
Re: Presumed Innocent? Let's punish him anyway! | ||
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Trenty,
You said:- Quote: I in no way wish to put words in Grahams mouth but from my own experience I can assure you that some people dont need a 'reason' to attack. To a growing number of people this seems to be their first line of argument. |
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sbarb |
Re: Presumed Innocent? Let's punish him anyway! | ||
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If I could be bothered, and I'm not, I would look back in the archives of BFW and lay a bet that Trent Trotter has never once made any positive contribution to BFW. Funny you are only around when there is controversy, so I guess you must be some regular who chooses to post this negative stuff whilst hiding behind a very much 'private' profile.
Much like me I suppose, with my empty profile Else you're a right saddo who just waits to type your stuff when it suits. Graham is a decent bloke, has lots of friends, and has been hard done by. It doesnt need you to stir the #### to try and cause further problems. |
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