just one other thing,i do not think that you can draw a barbel into an area of water,where they do not want to go,and when i find fish,they are there because because they like it.regards derek.
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lesliefisherman |
Re: milks | ||
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hi,john i think the supermarket is already there and has been for donkys years,its called natuerall baits,can you tell me what year they will visit john.i can see what you mean though,to quote s.m,my bait is right on the money,every time,and if anyone comes fishing with me{who would want to}they would be fishing in a swim with barbel in,and that is probably where my knowledge of barbel fishing ends.
just one other thing,i do not think that you can draw a barbel into an area of water,where they do not want to go,and when i find fish,they are there because because they like it.regards derek. |
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kevin ci |
Re: milks | ||
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I think the answers in Mike baiting pyramid.
but my problem on a large river is the amount of free movement the fish chub/barbel/bream have to play with ie a large shoal of Bream moving in clearing up time after time and then along comes Mrs barbel none the wiser or same barbel enters your swim Travels on his/her way maybe not returning to the area for prehaps many days and when the barbel does the shoal of bream has again beaten them so in some cases barbel will never know the bait even was in the area. The problem I have with large rivers and HP is what amount would Iuse to allow barbel to get acustomed to it, I just feel that a good quality HNV used in the same way on a bigger river could maybe and its a big MAYBE get the ball rolling a little Quicker as the amounts could be more introduced would give me more confidence in the barbel coming across it before nusiance spieces. must make it clear that I'm talking about rivers with smaller populations like the Thames where they {barbel} are not dominant, unlike say the Seven where you know you are not to far away in any one swim. kev ps john must chat at the fish in. |
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Simon Kimber |
Re: BAIT: supermilk | ||
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Hi
Anyone looking to use milks might wanna take a look at Rod Hutchinson's books, The Carp Strikes Back and Carp Now and Then. Lots of discussion on bait and sample receipes. The books are old now but given that the barbel world is going through what the carp world did some time ago, i think still relevant. One conclusion he did make is that a balanced bait, ie one containing a bit of milk,fishmeal and roughage would outfish most other baits in the long term. However he points out that fish do show a preference for other baits at certain times. Another book for bait buffs is Carp Baits by Tim Paisley. In it he provides a history of baits and again details lots of receipes. There is a complete chapter on milks including a breakdown of the various ingredients and their properties. Interestingly for carp he says there is no point using milks unless you are fishing for large carp only, as small carp are in his opinion not as nutrionally aware. No idea if this would apply to barbel, but worth consideration. Cheers Simon |
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thisisjohn |
Kev, | ||
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Kev, yes mate looking forward to it, if i am napping wake me up
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kevin ci |
Re: Kev, | ||
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All th B's John, Buzzers/Bedchair/Big snozze sleeping bag
its the way foward for barbel fishing!! kev. |
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sandy |
butyric acid | ||
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Needs only to be used for 1 drop per large egg or 4 drops per 6 eggs.
I use it in paste mixes and usually only make 2 egg mixes at a time and one of these mixes will laste me for ages. Feed in the high quality MP like has been said, as you are fishing. No need for pre baiting, i usually feed in little balls the size of a pepper corn every now and then that all thats needed. Maple/cream/banana/scopex types flavourings seem to be accepted more readily than others. |
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lesliefisherman |
Re: butyric acid | ||
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hi,and you come from hampshire.derek.
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kevin ci |
Re: butyric acid | ||
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Sandy
Interesting what you say, Ive been using HNV with low confectory flavour on large river {Thames} no prebaiting envolved and had reasonable results in reasonably short time during autum/early winter Question for you do you use butyric acid along with any other flavours added like or metioned? or on its own? regards kev. |
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Matt Brown |
Re: butyric acid | ||
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Ray, just following on from the possible negative effects of Butyric Acid, I did a search on Google "Butyric Acid digestion" and the resulting links state how the production of Butyric Acid in the human body is of benefit, even as a defence for Cancer!
www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-15,GGLD:en&q=butyric+acid+digestion Has anyone even come to an accurate conclusion on how much bait (and particularly protein) Barbel can eat daily? ------------------------
www.delticmedia.co.uk |
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Andy Davies |
Re: butyric acid | ||
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I am not overly worried about the danger of Butyric Acid, like most things in the correct dose they are not harmful and indeed may be essential. Most Essential Oils for example would be pretty dangerous if we consumed them by the teaspoon. I definately wouldnt be worried about the datasheet, you could find one equally scary looking for vinegar or lemon juice for example.
The most interesting bit in Rays Link was the other one. Dogs can detect N-butyric at 10 parts per billion. I suspect fish must be at able to detect similar levels? Andy |
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RollingPinBoy |
Re: butyric acid | ||
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No problem with that but what will be the outcome relating to 'fish'. If someone over doses the bait, and the fish eats it, what will be the final consequence.
Many anglers 'alien' baits including Meat have added ingredients, chemicals, preservatives, etc so it can be a minefield without knowing the affects on the internal system of the fishes health. When speaking to a scientist about sex change fish and hermaphrodites, he said that there were some additives/ingredients that could possibly contribute to these changes, and some where even of a natural origin. Probably quite a controversial and sensitive issue for humans and fish alike...Ray |
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thisisjohn |
Re: butyric acid | ||
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Corrr! Ray, i can think of a real good candidate in work to try that theory out on mate
then the expression we use for him would suit him aptly on amore serious note can i take the opportunity to thank you Ray for the marvellous effort in continuously contributing greatly with all the terrific info mate, very much appreciated it is too....j.w |
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lesliefisherman |
Re: butyric acid | ||
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hi,to be totaly honest ime completely lost on this bait subject,makes you wonder how fish survived without us anglers.regards derek.
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sandy |
kev | ||
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I use the butyric acid (as i see it) not as an 'attractor' directly but as something that will aid digestion as the more they eat, the bigger they get and the better odds I have of getting a bite.
I use both the butyric acid along with one or two low level dose flavours, plus one or two extra things |
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Darran |
supermilks..... | ||
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so what we can conflude so far is that maybe we could have......
enough base mix for 6eggs, (milk protien based say 10oz) 1-2ml of confectionary flavouring.... 4 drops of b acid? or.... say 5oz of fishmeal base mix, 5 oz milk protien 1-2ml of savoury smell 4 drops of b acid? |
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Andy Davies |
Re: supermilks..... | ||
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Those attractor levels sound perfick to me Daran. If you do go for a milk only, ensure that you add some oil, as there isnt any inherently in the base mix itself... have a butchers at ones in the Supermarket, the nut based ones dont seem to go solid at low temps ;-)
Andy |
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Snobber |
milk powder | ||
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Have you tried Speedywean you can get it from most farm merchants, and it is the same milk protein that is used in Active8
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Andy Davies |
Re: milk powder | ||
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I am guessing that is some kind of milk replacer for young animals, they are all based on skimmed milk powder, with various additives to make them taste nice (to the calves!) including lactose which is a known fish attractor. Quite a good alternative to give birdfood/fishmeal boilies a milky undertone, however protein wise, they are way down on the usual suspects. Cheap though, at around £3 for smaller bags, prob cheaper in bulk.
Andy |
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scubasteve |
Question for Ray, | ||
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Ray,
did you ever come to a conclusion about the "extra Barbule" that was covered in Quest for Barbel? I seem to remember that you were going to carry on the study. If I remember correctly, you thought it could have been a number of things including additives in meat, maggots etc. Sorry if its been covered before. Steve Out of the darkness, cometh the light.
Wolverhampton Wanderers FC Est 1877 |
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RollingPinBoy |
Re: Question for Ray, | ||
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Steve... i still keep my eyes open to see how it is progressing. Like i said , i still think that some will eventually have full grown 8 barbules/barbels in the future. I did see and photograph a 6lb barbel from the Middle Avon with four full grown anteriors/fronts a couple of seasons ago.
Still don't know the real reason why, but suggestions have been made about habitat change, i.e. silt, weed etc. In my opinion, the extra fronts could be beneficial for surface fishing in dense weed or sides of banks. The back ones (posteriors). i'm not sure...Ray |
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