| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
 RollingPinBoy |
Re: milks | ||
|
Posts: 1714 (23/01/06 14:15) |
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid
and safety avogadro.chem.iastate.edu...c_acid.htm Any idea how it may effect the internal system of a fish or fish health in general? Cheers...Ray |
||
|
FLOODBANK |
Re: milks | ||
|
Posts: 242 (23/01/06 14:17) |
Andy,
N-butyric can be a very valuable addition to your bait,especially at this time of year.Ken Townley wrote an article a while back in Coarse Fisherman, with some tips on the use of this and other additives.Well worth reading if you can get hold of. Jason |
||
|
Dodge |
Re: Milks | ||
|
Posts: 406 (23/01/06 16:26) |
The easiest and safest way to add butyric acid (if you read the guitarmans references) would seem to be to not wash your feet for several days whilst wearing the same pair woolly socks and then mix the base mix by mushing it through your toes
 Anyway, barbel angling has been there and done that with milks, some have even got the teeshirt and written the book - lets not get back into the irresponsible and selfish feeding off of sections of the river until you can get back to it. Use milks in a responsible way - don't pre-bait - it will have an instant effect anyway, use in small amounts and under NO circumstances chuck any in when you leave  Dodge |
||
|
Brinksy |
Milks? | ||
|
Posts: 42 (23/01/06 16:57) |
Just a query?
I have an old bottle of john baker musk spice (not old spice  ) knocking about and was wondering what recipies to use it in. Has anybody else come across this flavour? I have looked in his brochers and i think he doesn't produce this any more. It has been kept well in a very cold fridge and I know it is highly concerntrated and was wondering what sort of recipies i could include it in. Would it work in say confectionary baits or savoury ones, or possibly for flavouring meat?? It smell's very different from any other flavour i have smelt?Any suggestions welcome.. |
||
|
milkers |
Re: Milks | ||
|
Posts: 854 (23/01/06 17:04) |
Pretty smelly as I was told, that n-butryc acid.
Looks quite hazardous reading Ray's esecond link, will have to get some parsnip essence Ray Following on from the good Doctor's comments, what do you thnk the advantages of using milks for a winter campaign would be, compared to using a combination of quality low temp fishmeals and n-butryc acid/low oil levels, versus milks. I'm aware that LT fishmeals are more expensie than a regular fishmeal but if they would perform as well as a milk protein then why switch? Mart |
||
|
Darran |
milks... | ||
|
Posts: 587 (23/01/06 18:58) |
thisisjohn- by my post i was refering to the fact that i am still confused, but would like to experiment! but whether anyone had concluded with anything so far.... like whether supermilk should only be used with 'sweet' flavours, or wheter you could mix a milk mix with a fishmeal base mix......
this is getting more confusing my the minute! |
||
|
thisisjohn |
darran | ||
|
Posts: 8622 (23/01/06 19:27) |
Darran, quite simply you can use whatever flavour you like mate but keep the flavour level down,
secondly yes you can mix it mate....j.w |
||
|
thisisjohn |
additives | ||
|
Posts: 8622 (23/01/06 19:30) |
also if you are determinedly going down the path of HP baits then have a good look at the body building supplements, most have a very high amino profile too....j.w
|
||
|
lebrab |
Re: additives | ||
|
Posts: 57 (23/01/06 19:54) |
It's de ja vous all over again
 I remember all of this HP bait discussion years ago when it was carp baits,but now its barbel baits.And the outcome will be the same,a balanced bait with fishmeal,and some milk protein (doesn't have to be the expensive stuff) with maybe a dollop of seed thrown in for roughage and texture,is all that is required.I dare say bait companies will say little bits of this or that will add to its effectiveness,then they are right,but do realise that its still a glorified trout pellet at the end of the day.When the wonder pellet hit the scene fisheries were taken apart with them,and all they pretty much realy are is a balanced diet,made from,yeah,youve guessed it.......Milk proteins will work on their novelty factor alone,but add say 10% wheatgerm,and 10%fishmeal,and a touch of Robin Red and a hint of liver powder then that is a more balanced bait,and more likely to be consumed in higher volumes that straight milk proteins.Anglers are always looking for that edge with their bait,when all that is required is to get to know (realy know) their fisheries,get to know their quarry,and put the time and commitment in,then they might catch a few more fish 
|
||
|
thisisjohn |
Re: additives | ||
|
Posts: 8622 (23/01/06 20:29) |
Lebrab, sorry mate but i disagree with almost everything you have said mate, bird seed was and still is used not for roughage but for something to help the baits break down faster, HP carp baits, fishmeal? not when i made em mate,
maybe we come from different bait schools, peanuts and tigers hit the carp much more than trout pellets mate,unless they were stockies...j.w john walker
|
||
|
lebrab |
Re: additives | ||
|
Posts: 57 (23/01/06 20:41) |
Hi John, HP's; when I made 'em they contained NO fishmeal either.Peanuts and tigers,yes i agree with you,the fish went nuts (?) on them,but theres other nut baits that will outfish those two.Was it the novelty factor with them? But pellets have made a bigger impact than either of those,at least on the waters i fished/fish.I say watercraft will always win out.Thats what i was trying to say mate,not the bait.
|
||
|
lebrab |
Re: additives | ||
|
Posts: 57 (23/01/06 20:45) |
Sorry John,i didnt fully reply,birdseed,"helps with bait breakdown",erm,depends on the other engredients does it not.And wasnt it to supply fats and carbo's too,possibly vitamins,and of course to keep costs down?
|
||
|
thisisjohn |
Re: additives | ||
|
Posts: 8622 (23/01/06 21:03) |
no probs Lebrab mate, Almonds
 bloody expensive though watercraft trouble is on most carp lakes now theres little chance of using it, i was sitting in a bush feeding floaters to some damn good fish and just about had their confidence after a few hours and just when i made up my mind to get the rod and drop a floater in a massive bombardment of boilies came whistling onto the edge of my bush, of course the carp scarpered, i shouted out a few times but when it continued i had enough, walked round to give the bloke an earful! all he said was there aint nowhere you can fish that bush except for his swim, i very delicately explained i was going to fish from inside the bush! he looked at me in total disbeleif, god knows what he would have made of my decided tactics once i hooked one  decision was to hurtle through the bush into the lake and scare the fish out into open water needless to say i stayed dry that day...j.w
|
||
|
lebrab |
Re: additives | ||
|
Posts: 57 (23/01/06 21:11) |
John,now THAT's what i call fishing
|
||
|
Born Again Fisher |
Fishing Tactics | ||
|
Posts: 1366 (23/01/06 22:03) |
jw - you should have used your fishing tactics on the boilie chucker - don't know about scaring carp into open water but I bet the boilie chucker would have been halfway back to his car within two seconds of you emerging from the bush Cheers Graham BAF I walked across an empty land, I knew the pathway like the back of my hand. Felt the earth beneath my feet, sat by the river and it made me complete Keane - Somewhere only we know |
||
|
SM |
Re: milks | ||
|
Posts: 567 (23/01/06 23:49) |
I don't actually think that the severn barbel seem all that fussy when it comes to baits. Come to think of it, the testing experiments I have carried out prove a little inconclusive.
Often the introduction of a MP experiment goes hand in hand with A) a lot more dedication and effort from the angler (probably down to the expense of what thet are throwing in the river!). Happy to pour a 1/4 full bottle of merlot down the sink but now they are using pomerol and its " hey go steady with that stuff, its expensive. And B), strangley a new found confidence that what they are doing will improve due only to the bait. Put all that to one side and fish the MP in exactly the same manner as another good quality mix and I have found the results pretty much equal. It is easy to bias the results and some even prefer this to somehow justify their outlay on the bait! Don't get me wrong, a good MP fished properly will give encouraging results, but so will other baits fished with as much confidence. One thing for sure is that they do a while to digest any quantiy of the stuff and if overfed you can easily ruin your own/other peoples fishing. I once watched a group of B.Avon fish for a 3 week period eating a varierty of "normal" baits. They would feed every day if not spooked. introduced a 6 egg mix of a very high pro mix and they ate the lot in one sitting. They also hardly ate anything else for 4 days ! including more of the same HP bait. Come day 5 they fed again with gusto..... . The best result I have seen from using MP bait is when fished as a small group of anglers all using the same mix. when trickled in in small quantities buy say 4-5 mates the results can be pretty impressive. Trouble with that is that there is always at least one stroke puller, who breaks rank and changes the mix or the quanity fed, then the merrygo round starts again! Trouble is, not many people seem to have the confidence to do the same with another type of mix, don't know why, because the results turn out nearly the same when I have compared them. Re butyric, if you are going to use it, try mixing it into the bait after you have added a tiny bit of base mix. It dissolves well into a slurry texture but tends to kurdle if introduced into the neat eggs. Andy D is right when he says it blows easily if used in high doseages, so go steady at 1-2 drops per 3 egg mix. Also see a good divorce lawyer if you don't use gloves when handling it. Just think of the dosh that you have spent feeding all those bream ! |
||
|
lesliefisherman |
Re: milks | ||
|
Posts: 2713 (24/01/06 10:12) |
hi,well ive heard a lot of talk of bait,but ime going to have to agree with lebrab,and the most inportant ingriedient,finding the fish,location,you cant catch a fish that isnt there can you.
to my mind still the most important thing,dont matter how good your bait is,if you havnt got fish in the swim,you might just as well cast in the field,and before anyone says that ime not catching anything,it is nothing to do with not finding fish. i also agree with darrans post,regards location on rivers where you cant see them,and the way he described feature finding,but maybe anglers cant be bothered to look for things like that,and would rather just fish in a nice looking swim,and hope one comes along,and finds your bait.i have just one day a week to fish,and if it takes up best part of the day finding them,so be it,but at the very least i will be fishing where the fish are,and that is ime sure the correct way to do it.regards derek. |
||
|
thisisjohn |
Re: milks | ||
|
Posts: 8622 (24/01/06 10:17) |
Derek mate, they stick a supermarket in the middle of nowhere and people still visit it, fish aint much different mate providing they are in your stretch, offer em small tasters and pick your location carefully, put your wares on offer after much advertising and they will eventually come to you mate,
depends on if you want instant angling opportunity or a long term veiw as to whats in that section mate ...j.w
|
||
|
kevin ci |
Re: milks | ||
|
Posts: 513 (24/01/06 10:27) |
Good post this,like using milks myself but wonder if the expenise and amount to feed the bream/chub etc before I'd feel that I would gain any advantage over a good quality bait
would really have an edge unlike Their use on smaller river where its easier to keep control of whats happening down there, what do you think john? regards kev |
||
|
thisisjohn |
Re: milks | ||
|
Posts: 8622 (24/01/06 10:31) |
Kev, ask yerself this mate, if you were on a lake what contained some really good carp but was also holding great numbers of bream/tench what would you do to counter it mate? aint gonna give all me secrets away but with a bit of thought the answers lay here....j.w
|
||
