Bait-making query

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Paul Boote	Bait-making query	Lead	[-]
Posts: 4487 (18/12/06 13:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Certain that Lee or someone else can answer this in a second. I have two very good baits going at present, simple affairs but with one or two additions that make them work, both instantly and over the long haul. I use them both boiled / steamed and as pastes. I want to feed a few bits of water with the boiled baits, in very small quantities after Christmas, with a view to having a fish in the areas late Feb - mid March. Both baits go firm enough for an hour or so's fishing when steamed / boiled, but break up after maybe two. So I want to harden them, to last a day when put in as feed. Casein, I seem to remember from my few, amateurish, early 1980s, bait-making forays, is the stuff for the job, but just how much should I use in a mere one- or two-egg mix (I use very little bait, at any time of year), which make of Casein should I use, and where can I get it at a reasonable price for the pathetically small quantity that I'll be needing? Or should I be using casein at all? Would summat else doing the job of hardening the baits rather better? Advice greatly appreciated.
scubasteve	Re: Bait-making query	#1	[-]
Posts: 4400 (18/12/06 13:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Paul, I'm no bait expert, but what about "air drying" them? Steve www.caravanonthesevern.co.uk
paraman	Re: Bait-making query	#2	[-]
Posts: 101 (18/12/06 13:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	If you are using whole egg inthe mix, have you tried boiling them for an extra minute? Don't know what you're boiling time at present is, but this could be a very simple answer. The longer the boil time, the thicker the 'skin' becomes and therefore, the longer the breakdown. If this isn't an option (some clever additives will start to dissolve a bait after reaching a certain temperature), then trying adding Nutrabaits' Nutragel or Granite Mix. Go easy on the granite mix in two egg mix and try half an ounce or so. It's not called 'granite' for nothing! I'm sure there are other ingredients from other companies, but have never used them. To be old and wise, first you have to be young and stupid!
Paul Boote	Granite!	#3	[-]
Posts: 4487 (18/12/06 13:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Cheers, paraman. Look as if it might do the job. I've gone the "big boil" route, and found that it although it made the baits a lot harder initially they still fell apart "in the wash". I just want them to be able to stay out there long enough for a few, big, very lazy barbel to find 'em!
paraman	Re: Granite!	#4	[-]
Posts: 101 (18/12/06 13:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Paul, if you let me have the recipe, I will quite happily make some up and let you know how it works! To be old and wise, first you have to be young and stupid!
bgit	Re: Granite!	#5	[-]
Posts: 4690 (18/12/06 13:58) bob gill administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Just a few that added in small quantities that will harden or aid the skinning of your bait: Whey Gel Whey Concentrate Egg Albumen CLO or equivalent will aid binding and skinning. Vitamealo (Calf Milk Replacer) will aid skinning and binding. The first three have no overt smell (to us), CLO is essentially a ground mixture of birdseeds, but Vitamealo has a ice cream type smell. Whey gel or Whey concentrate are probably your best bets. Egg Albumen is just dried egg white and while increasing the skinning, isn't as effective as the first two for lessening boiling/steaming times and hardening the bait. For more details then go to the CCMoore site: www.ccmoore.com Thre are other ingredients, but don't want to over complicate things. Hope this helps, Cheers Bob
Paul Boote	only whey to go	#6	[-]
Posts: 4487 (18/12/06 14:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Cheers, Bob. CC Moore, here I come.
PJ Martin	Re: only whey to go	#7	[-]
Posts: 770 (18/12/06 16:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Why not add a bit of viagra to stiffen them up a touch.
barbelgirl123	Re: only whey to go	#8	[-]
Posts: 240 (18/12/06 17:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Dear Paul, Be carfull what you add to your bait as may make it worse than what you have now. It would be very difficult to suggest any one thing as I dont know the ingrediants your useing, as a good starting point I would look at why it is not binding together could be many factors' Im not telling you what to use but why not go back to a company that sell bait mixes then just add your own smells and bits n pieces. good luck with it,if your still strugling pm' me and may be able to help as have been making my own for 30 years. Regards LJ.
Splint123	Re: only whey to go	#9	[-]
Posts: 442 (18/12/06 18:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Leanne, I don't think Paul has a problem binding his bait together. From what I can gather, he boils his baits for a very short period of time so that the bait is skinned and the inside is soft. This would allow for maximum attractiveness and high solubility without denaturing the bait with excessive boiling times - which can also make the bait float, of course. I think Paul wants something that will harden the baits and still keep boiling times to a minimum. I know Bob's a bit of a bait expert - I'd go with his advice. Andy Davies also knows a thing or two but he'll most likely tell you the same thing as Bob. Good luck. Dave. There is a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore acting like an idiot.
thisisjohn	Re: only whey to go	#10	[-]
Posts: 8631 (18/12/06 18:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Paul, Steaming them for 4 or 5 minutes should do the trick mate ....j.w
Andy Davies	Re: only whey to go	#11	[-]
Posts: 3012 (18/12/06 18:42) andy davies administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yep I would have said what Bob said. I like Egg Albumen as it has a decent food value too. Suspect the same is true of the Whey products Bob mentions but personally aint tried em. One thing Steaming doesnt work that well with HNV mixes, they tend to lose shape and stick together badly... Andy
bgit	Re: only whey to go	#12	[-]
Posts: 4690 (18/12/06 18:55) bob gill administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Andy is right - steaming predominantly milk proteins can lead to sticky, mishapen baits. Cheers Bob
thisisjohn	Re: only whey to go	#13	[-]
Posts: 8631 (18/12/06 19:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	ops i thought everyone was using a fish mix with some extra bits ....j.w
Paul Boote	Whey hey	#14	[-]
Posts: 4487 (18/12/06 19:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"ops i thought everyone was using a fish mix with some extra bits" Never leave home without the stuff, John. So useful, I find, to "accidentally" drop on the ground near well-known swims on more pressured fisheries. Great to give away, as "not bad, this, but don't pass it around..." to fellow-fishers, too... Thanks for the advice, everyone.
dr barbus	Re: Whey hey	#15	[-]
Posts: 1643 (18/12/06 20:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	-- straight answer -- Nutragel I think is Nutrabaits sourced Whey Gel. Used both to ensure rubbery skin on baits that are to be boiled for short periods. Both good for that and do not detract from whatever else is in your bait mix, and allow softer interiors. The granite additive (used that too) is like casein30 (and that) in that the bait becomes firm all the way through. -- silly answer --- Alternatively you could use my very first ever boilie recipe Yellow semolina and Custard Powder (and that is all) Brilliant but shortlived. Or what my mother banned me from her kitchen for - Kittikat (pilchard), Weetabix and Semolina You try making that up in a house with two dogs and four cats and half the bait goes missing while you step outside to catch your breath. -- Dr Barbus There's a world of difference between waiting and sitting.
bewdley2	Re: Whey hey	#16	[-]
Posts: 888 (18/12/06 21:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	On the subject of baits..Was in town yesterday and wondered into a shop (Julian Greeves)..They specialise in all kinds of exotic nuts and spices. I spotted what looked like a kilo of 14mill bolies..Turned out to be chilie covered cashew nuts. I was very tempted to buy some to try, but seem'ed to remember that nuts need treating in some way or another when used for fishing. Can anyone help, only they sound and look great!!Was even thinking of letting the fish try 'em as well .....Kindest...Jim.... .......
Paul Boote	Had an uncannily similar experience, Doc	#17	[-]
Posts: 4487 (18/12/06 21:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Me, aged ten and three-quarters, in the months after I had had my first barbel from the Old Mill at Aldermaston, making catfood and sausage meat pastes. My Ma, a couple of cats, a "big", super-posy, teenage sister getting all stroppy ... "If he doesn't stop making that smell in the kitchen, Mum, I'm leaving home..." She did, not long afterwards.
dr barbus	Nuts	#18	[-]
Posts: 1643 (18/12/06 21:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nuts need soaking for long periods and thoroughly cooking. I would guess that your chilli covering would soak off. See Hinders site for guide to particles at www.hinders.co.uk/Default...adindex.28 -- Dr Barbus There's a world of difference between waiting and sitting.
dr barbus	"All your fault"	#19	[-]
Posts: 1643 (18/12/06 21:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Paul - She was not impressed to find the cat food cupboard bare either - The Cats did not mind as they ended up eating chicken livers (and all the rest of the bits). - They then turned their noses at tinned cat food. That upset the dogs as they used to howl when it was being cooked. And apparently it was all my fault - Rod Hutchinson has to lot to answer for! -- Dr Barbus There's a world of difference between waiting and sitting.
trentbarbeler	Re: Lets talk master baiting.	#20	[-]
Posts: 2143 (18/12/06 21:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Dear Paul, I disagree with Bob when he said Egg Albumen won't make your bait hard, it will. Damned hard if you add 2 ounce to a pound dry mix. However, this tends to dry the mix out once mixed into a paste prior to rolling to have a poly bag ready to pop the paste into before rolling as this stops it from drying out quickly. Small amounts of casein? The very best available is glycerphosphated rennet (spelling) which retains all its vitamins and minerals during processing. Its full digestible (in humans) and you "CAN" buy it in small quantities if required. But from where and will this be more trouble than its worth? Nope. Go into Boots the chemist and look for "Sanatogen" powder. You know Paul, the one that the telly advert used to say "fortifies the over forties". Its 97% glycerphosphated rennet casein. But if you "really" want to make a bait hard as steel, add just one half ounce of "Blood Powder" to one pound of dry mix. This stuff is the human grade powder in dried pigs blood used to make Black Pudding. Its very expensive costing around the same dosh as milk proteins would for 25kilo's "in the trade". If you use the BFW messaging service and give me your address or the postal address for a park bench if its hush hush, I'll send you some blood powder in the post absolutely free of charge. Simply because you are my hero after my real passion in life which is Cher. There is another trick you could try however, and thats try adding 3ozs of Ground Rice to one pound of your dry mix. Over boil a tad and those little barbel balls will go hard as the pavement. I also have another trick up my sleeve for your baiting up campaign but that is strictly PM stuff. Regards, Lee.

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Bait-making query

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