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windrusher |
paste wrapped boilies |
Lead | |
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Gonna try this method this coming Autumn but was wondering, clearly the boilie is on a hair but the question is, do you lengthen the hair to allow a good blob of paste wrap with the hook exposed or is it better to fish with the boilie just on the bend of the hook and wrap the whole lot in paste?
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Weelo |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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Hi Windrusher,
Have the same considerations myself. Only playing with this a few times (but not for barbs) I was using a long hair with a homemade coarse base making a soft paste. On those occaisions I was using a long hair. It did work, but I was not entirely confident nor happy with presentation considering that the paste potentially could blind the action of the hair. I had alot of time to experiment at that time but would have liked to experiment more. My main thoughts on rigs were similar to yours with getting the paste consistancy as soft as possible, dependant on casting distance. May be not much help here Cheers, Jon |
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Si705 |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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Hi guys.I'm definitely gonna give this method a good go this autumn/winter on my local Bristol Avon.Was just wondering if you could give me any ideas on what pastes to use? Cheers and Tight Lines!!! Si |
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kenjiblaster25 |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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Make the paste from your hookbait crushed and refixed with eggs or water. If not try using something compatible but slightly less interesting to the fish. Getting the recipe right is a real trial and error process, I'm going to be making some for this week's fishing.
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Weelo |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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As kenjiblaster25 mentioned, I make my pastes from the pellet I use. Making this by using a food blender (not the mrs' if you want to stay popular) using a smaller pellet as I find that this breaks up more readily - dependant on the power of the blender. Blend the pellet until you get the desired level of coarseness or fine powder & then I add warm water at home (not greater than 55C so to not denature the profile of the pellet) to get the consistency one requires. Warm water in my opinion just helps semi dissolve some of the oils, which helps it bind & makes the paste have a better smell pulling power availability within the water. Make the paste before you go, leave in the fridge over night or freeze - your choice. Again your choice, add flavours etc, but if its a good pellet, the natural taste/smell profile should be more than enough.
Normally have to add some water on the bank when I arrive to get the consistency I require. This paste readily desiccates if not wrapped / kept covered otherwise very small amounts of water will be need to be added throughout the session. Wrapping paste around other hook baits is fairly straight forward, given one has the right rig for such an application. In my opinion, paste is one of the best baits for bottom feeding fish but fishing paste directly on the hook takes alot of patience, perseverance & a few years to master. Hope this help & good luck, Jon |
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adamphtg |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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As previously mentioned scald your pellets with hot water to break them down into a paste, add some egg white, whey powder or gluten to re-bind it and a bit of oil if you wish.
As for presentation I have been messing with a single boilie then a Korum paste spring as a hair stop, fill it up with paste and hey presto, big double bait which stays on for longer You heard it here first ATB Adam Ken, Had a look in Marsh tackle, not overly taken with those baits, I'm testing for a new company, good results so far, I'll chuck you 1/2kg in post, let me know how you get on. |
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trentbarbeler |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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Dear Lads, and maybe the odd few Lasses,
I've been using this method for about ten years now and in my opinion, it out scores all methods for long term use associated with fish on the bank. Especially at this time of the year when we begin to approach the autumn and winter. Yes I know, pellet is supposed to be the going hook bait but its not for me as I want something that stays on the hook, can last out there on the bottom without either melting or picked at by invertebrates or small fish as it begins to melt. So for me, even though it will go down like a lead brick in some circles, the boillee in whatever shape or size should form the foundation for the paste "wrap around". The idea is the boilee lasts a lot longer and can be recast time and again with a coating of fresh slow melting paste. Length of hair? I use exactly the same length of hair for paste wraps as I would for bait fished without it. Basically about 2-3ml from bait to bend of hook simply because I want my hook very close to the bait when a fish picks it up with its over-slung mouth. This aspect is "VERY" important especially as the water temperature goes down which coincides with a downturn in the barbels metabolism. So picture your boilee on the hair what to do next? Taking it that you are using say a 14ml bait ok. Take a piece of paste about the size of a hazelnut and squash it out flat to the size of say a 50p piece between your thumb and finger. Place the boilee in the centre of this flattened out paste and begin to wrap it up around the boilee. You will notice you have some surplus paste once the bait is covered and thats ok because you want this surplus. Begin then to mould this surplus up the hook shank almost to the hooks eye. This is taking into account you are using a size 6. Mould the paste so just the hook point, barb, and say the length below that just going into the bend and you have it about right. So looking at the finished preparation the hook point, barb and a little bit below that will be sticking out of the side of the paste wrap. If you have done all this correctly try dropping the finished bait in a bucket of water or the river margin if its shallow. Once dropped in your hook point should be facing upwards off the river bed or lying at right angles to it but never facing directly down on the river bed itself. The neat little side effect trick of this method is it will protect your chemically sharpened hook until a fish picks it up! What type of paste? You need to be looking at a paste that will take a good while to melt once in water. My pastes will not melt entirely for at least a couple of hours during the summer and a lot longer than that as the water temperature goes down. Fast melting pastes are a complete waste of time so you need to experiment with any type either purchased or made until you are happy they will last once out in the river. Also, and this is again "VERY" important, it has to be water soluble "NOT" oil based like most pellets are. Once the paste begins to melt you want the melting residue to waft off down river along the bottom thus sending a signal to bottom dwelling fish your bait is ahead of them up stream? An oil based paste or pellets for that matter release their oil sending the signal up towards the surface which in our case is over the fishs heads lying down stream of our melting paste!! So as we approach the autumn and winter always go for a water soluble type paste. The ones I use which I always make myself are; Liver, Spiced Liver, Strong Cheese and Nature Identical which contains various invertebrate concentrated powers. These pastes all contain natural ingredients and are very powerful in terms of smell and taste. They are however pretty complex in their make up and considering I buy some of the more exotic ingredients in bulk theres not much point in going over these in detail here. However, a really good paste can be made up with simple ingredients ready available and fairly cheap. Heres one that will catch you loads of fish right throughout the season. Take one pound of fish pellets. It doesnt matter what type or how much oil content they have because Ill tell you how to neutralise the oil in a moment. Place these pellets in an old towel and form a bag shape around the pellets. Now crush the pellets within the towel. Gently use a hammer of stout piece of wood to do this. DONT SOAK TO SOFTEN but crush or grind them in a good blender/grinder. To this powder now add 3ozs of either Lambs Milk Powder or Calf Rearing Powder These are very easily obtainable via agricultural suppliers in 10-15 kilo bags so why not go in with a couple of mates and share a small bag? Thoroughly mix the 3oz of milk powder in with the pellet powder. Powdered milk of the human type is not as good and will make the paste melt at a more rapid rate so be warned! Now take say 3-4 four good sized eggs and beat until thoroughly mixed. Add any flavour you might want but go easy on the dosage because the pellets are strong enough already. 2-4 mils are easy enough. Personally I wouldnt use a flavour at all. To neutralise or emulsify the pellet oil content simple add 25mil of condensed milk to the beaten eggs and whisk in. This condensed milk is the very thick sweet stuff and NOT the carnation type evaporated milk. Condensed milk is a natural oil emulsifier. Mix the blended powder in with the eggs until you have a dough very similar to plastercene almost a bit on the stiff side but still pliable. Get your hands in to do the mixing once it becomes hard going with a spoon! At this stage I would add a small jar of salmon paste and a good squirt of concentrated Anchovy paste thats available in any supermarket. These will add a flavour zing to your paste that barbel will home in on. So there you have it, an easy to make water soluble paste that will catch barbel anywhere. Regards, Lee. |
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Weelo |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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Thanks alot Lee - excellent detailed reasoned examples & a pleasure to read as usual. Makes this forum what it is... Cheers, Jon |
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trentbarbeler |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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Cheers Jon,
Not so sure some will agree however when they read my post on the cane rods thread. Regards, Lee. |
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Richwak |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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I use both the sources bollies on the hair wrapped in a paste made from the source base mix. Catches fish both summer and winter and is widely available and easy to prepare. I use 1 egg and add enough powder to stiffen it up. It's the perfect amount for a session but remember it contains raw eggs so take care after using it. Samonella(sp?) is not fun.
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barbeltastic |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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I liked your bit on cane rods Lee.
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Andy Davies |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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Go through phases of liking paste, and other times thinking a boilie would usually offer better hooking potential. From now on I will turn to paste more often, but the problem of nuisance fish can be apparent in non-perfect barbel conditions.
Andy p.s. the bit Lee described about the hook not endingup belwo the bait can be acheived without paste so lond as the hair is stiff enough |
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windrusher |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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Cheers for that, especially the in depth description Lee. I tried a home made paste last night on the lower severn, made up of hinders ground halibut powder, beaten egg with a couple of drops of flavouring from the John Baker stable.
I got plenty of chub bites, the tip plucking away within 1 minute of casting but no boris. This paste did melt quite quickly though so will experiment to slow the rate of disssolving down. |
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Guy Baxendale |
Re: paste wrapped boilies | ||
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When it gets cold has anyone tried adding Vodka to their paste? Barmy Bill Rushmer writes an article on it every year but I have never tried it............
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trentbarbeler |
Re: Whiskey in the jar'o | ||
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Dear Guy,
I love my barbel fishing like everyone else on here I should think, but I would draw a distinct line between the "spiritual" needs of fish and my own. Mind you, I remember a well known tackle dealer selling spirit type flavours for carp anglers a while back. I got slightly confused with the litre bottle of "whiskey flavour" I purchased especially when I got half way down the bottle because it only made my ears burn and didn't get me drunk at all!! Regards, Lee. |
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Weelo |
Re: Whiskey in the jar'o | ||
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Might be akin to the ethyl alcohol based flavours that are favoured by carp anglers in the cold weather - used for increased flavour dissapation in cold waters?
Cheers, Jon |
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Guy Baxendale |
Re: Whiskey in the jar'o | ||
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Lee - "it only made my ears burn and didn't get me drunk at all"
Here is Mr Rushmer on vodka paste: "Although a simple paste made from ground-up trout pellet mixed with water is a very effective summer bait, it tends to be far less productive in the winter. It appears that the fish attracting oils in the ground-up trout pellets become emulsified and do not diffuse properly throughout the water. The addition of ethanol (ethyl alcohol) helps this diffusion of oils and enhances the baits attractiveness to the fish. In simple practical terms, Vodka is one of the commonest forms of relatively pure alcohol. I add 25ml of Vodka to 25Og of finely ground trout pellet and then add water to make up my winter paste. As feed, I ignore traditional pellets as they take too long to break down in cold water. Instead I use a feed made up by shaking 25Og of trout fry crumb with 25ml of Vodka in a plastic bag. The paste is fished in small balls on small hooks on a pole rig fished with running line. Bites can be very shy in winter and sensitive gear is often needed for detection. The feed is accurately introduced in small, marble sized balls with great care taken not to overfeed the swim. Despite being the butt of many angling jokes, this Vodka-based baiting system has proved to be very successful. It has often worked where traditional pellet and paste tactics have failed. No doubt the fish enjoy the booze!" This article is aimed at people fishing commercial fisheries, hence the use of a pole etc but i do not see why it shouldnt be worth a try in colder conditions for barbel too? |
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Weelo |
Re: Whiskey in the jar'o | ||
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Thanks Guy & Lee, I have been considering the use of emulsifiers (pellets, pastes & boilies) for a time for these veritable fish based baits during colder weather. Especially now the water temps are starting to drop. This being the thought regarding fish meal use in other specimen fishing circles where by for most, they start using a different base instead November onwards. I will be starting a new thread on this closer to the end of September A good thread & some very good thoughts Jon |
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